Multiple versions, GUI stuck, transfer functions

[JerzyW]

After switching Vensim few times from v9 to v8 and back, Vensim is now stack permanently in old version regardless of the GUI I select. I wish switching would work flawlessly but I prefer old version of Vensim because it has functionalities that were removed in v9. The changes that I would like to see are:

1. Option to install multiple versions of Vensim. This would give me freedom to continue using Vensim until bugs in new releases are fixed. Or in other words, more happy customers (less frustration). ... Take the idea of installing multiple versions of software from Inkscape: https://inkscape.org/release/1.1.2/windows/

2. Create interim version v8.9999?, version with old reliable v8 engine and new GUI from v9. Don’t change any menus and options because they were better in v8.

3. In Vensim v10. Replace outdated concept of stock and flows with transfer function.

[Administrator]

After switching Vensim few times from v9 to v8 and back, Vensim is now stack permanently in old version regardless of the GUI I select. I wish switching would work flawlessly but I prefer old version of Vensim because it has functionalities that were removed in v9. The changes that I would like to see are:

Can you provide more feedback on what was removed that you still need? You can also switch back to the old GUI if you really need to.

1. Option to install multiple versions of Vensim. This would give me freedom to continue using Vensim until bugs in new releases are fixed. Or in other words, more happy customers (less frustration). ... Take the idea of installing multiple versions of software from Inkscape: https://inkscape.org/release/1.1.2/windows/

You can install multiple versions of Vensim. On WIndows it's easy, you can do it during installation. On the Mac, once installed, you need to move the app bundle to a sub-folder in the /Applications folder.

2. Create interim version v8.9999?, version with old reliable v8 engine and new GUI from v9. Don’t change any menus and options because they were better in v8.

Everything should still be in V9, but we have tweaked locations of certain things to try and make it easier to use. If you can provide more feedback that would help.

3. In Vensim v10. Replace outdated concept of stock and flows with transfer function.

Can you provide more feedback on what you mean by this?

[tomfid]

Re #2, the simulation engine hasn't really been changed. Is there any particular issue you're seeing?

I agree that some of the menu reorganization is unfortunate, especially for Windows users. Some of it - for example the separation of Window and Output menus - has been forced by Mac compatibility considerations.

Re #3, are you thinking of something like a block diagramming approach, as in Simulink? I can see the utility of that, but at the same time it seems unlikely to meet the communication needs of nonengineering users or nonmodeler consumers.

[JerzyW]

Reply to issue #1.

This is what I have :
- PLE+ version 9.0.0.
- new GUI interface but old symbols (see attachment)

This is what I need.
Procedure (guidance) on how to install two completely independent versions of Vensim, 9 and 8.

My understanding of this process is:
- uninstall current version 9.0.0
- install latest version 9.1.0 (which I will never switch to version
- install latest version of 8.x.y, to have two independent installations of Vensim on my computer.
- hoping that by having two independent installations, Vensim will become a Tool (again), not a Science Project as it is right now

[Administrator]

During installation, did you install the versions into separate folders? The installer does prompt you to let you do this. That is the only way of having more than one version of Vensim installed.

[Administrator]

One other note. If you have 9.1 installed, you can click "Tools->Switch back to old sketch" to revert to the old GUI.

[JerzyW]

Is my attached image not clear that I should not see a new graphical GUI and the old style "stock and flow" diagram at the same time?

I have version 9.0 installed and it's telling me that I have the latest version installed. I will disregard this message an install 9.1 to a separate folder.

Reply to issue #3:

Stock in Vensim is a first order function. Stock grows linearly in response to the input flow being step function. I was proposing to expand Stock to second or third order functions as well. Then Stock would represent larger population of applications. ... And I doubt that graphical representation of the flow coming from a cloud is helping people understand how to build models. This takes a lot of space without much of benefit.

But I see your point, Ventana caters to an audience that will never design things that should not fall from the sky or harm people. Which makes me think that perhaps I should stop whining and limit my use of Vensim to sketching CLDs.

[tomfid]

Is my attached image not clear that I should not see a new graphical GUI and the old style "stock and flow" diagram at the same time?

This is not a bug. Toggle View>Traditional Sketch Style to switch to the new look. But either way, it's the new graphics - there are two skins.

Stock in Vensim is a first order function. Stock grows linearly in response to the input flow being step function. I was proposing to expand Stock to second or third order functions as well. Then Stock would represent larger population of applications. ... And I doubt that graphical representation of the flow coming from a cloud is helping people understand how to build models. This takes a lot of space without much of benefit.

What kind of functions or applications did you have in mind? Things like impulse response filters? There's already a bit of higher order dynamics in some of the delay functions, but nothing really engineering-oriented. A lot can be done with macros.

But I see your point, Ventana caters to an audience that will never design things that should not fall from the sky or harm people. Which makes me think that perhaps I should stop whining and limit my use of Vensim to sketching CLDs.

Politicians and business managers who don't understand first-order accumulation have done far more to destroy value and harm welfare than any engineered object ever has, nuclear weapons perhaps excepted.

[JerzyW]

On the attached screenshot I was trying to show that the old graphics was permanent, regardless of the skin that I have selected (old or new). I traced this problem to Vensim messing up Windows Registry. If you want to repeat this bug then switch old-new-old let say 20 times. However, I managed to reset windows registry by selecting “Reset All Vensim Setting” during re-installation of the latest version v911. This re-installation fixed the problem in v911 and v900 at the same time. So I am OK now with both of them v900 and v911. ... But this tells me that, yes we can install multiple versions of Vensim (which I did) but they all share the same configuration file in Windows Registry. So this is a bit of disappointment that installations are not completely independent of each other.

My comment on expanding Stock with more advanced functionality is inappropriate considering that I use PLE+ and Vensim have much more advanced functionally that I am not aware of. So I am withdrawing my suggestion. And as you said your customers are not looking for that so it’s better to keep it simple.

Fully agree with your statement about politicians and business managers. We have a taste of this in Canada now.

[tomfid]

Weird. We don't use the registry for settings, but rather a file called vensim.ini or vensimdp.ini, which lives in AppData\Roaming as I recall. I think that does mean copies of the same edition interact. Deleting that file can be a shortcut for the reset you get when you reinstall.