SD success?

[CrbnBlu@aol.com]

irt: billh@lsid.hp.com (Bill Harris), Sat, May 4, 1996 4:23 AM EST

Bill makes a good comment:

The next step seems to be to do more models and find out what works and
what doesnt. Some of that is somewhat obvious, but some begs for feedback
from others.

Suggestions?

Did anybody even consider the possibility that I wouldnt have one? (You can
tell Ive been up far too long).

I rather figured thats why were here on this list -- to provide assistance
when asked and feedback when desired. I am personally, and consider most
others also to be, quite willing to look at and consider approaches to most
anything. I have a whole bunch of models I want to build, and if I could quit
putzing with my web pages long enought I might just get to some of them. And
when I do I would most definitely like some feedback as to where they make
sense and where Ive missed the mark.

Gene Bellinger
CrbnBlu@aol.com

[tjoy@pps.k12.or.us (Timothy Joy)]

=46rom Gene: >>The whole crux of the situation is "perceived meaningfulness!=
"

=46rom Ed: >(B) Try to get the audience to listen to a discussion on
generic thinking
>so they will consider using the tool for a related, but somewhat different
>task in the future.

Gene and Ed have struck something. In myth criticism as in SD, archetypes
rule. Some of you may know of Joseph Campbell (Hero With a Thousand Faces,
Power of Myth, etc) and his notion that the world communities tell ONE
story. When we help young readers-so disconnected and disenchanted with
the modern crash of information-to be a part of the ONE story, to hear
humanitys conversation, we WILL change their life.

Gregory Bateson touches on this as well, albeit from a different
perspective. Can we TEACH young people to see, read, model, recreate,
feel, calculate "the pattern that connects"?

What good are facts? If they fit nothing, if I see them as disjointed, I
will forget them. Worse, I will hate them. In the publishing business,
templates save time and actually help people imagine and create. Generic
structures, literary archetypes, and page templates are much the same
thing-a pattern, a way of understanding and ordering ideas, stories,
images. How is writing a novel like building a house? How is =BC like a
human life? Maybe these are not, strictly speaking, SD questions, but they
do get young people to think beyond a test date and what must be known by
then.

Maybe a reason for SDs low profile is whats happening here: quiet typing
in offices and homes around the globe. Maybe when SD is a TV show, or a
movie, or replaces grammar instruction, or Bert and Ernie do a
stock-and-flow diagram on how Cookie Monsters appetite fluctuates-maybe
then, SD will be household thinking. Crass? Is there a nursery rhyme or
tune that tells a systems story?




Timothy Joy
CC-STADUS: Cross-Curricular Systems Thinking and Dynamics Using STELLA
La Salle College Preparatory
11999 S.E. Fuller Road (503)659-4155
Milwaukie, OR 97222 (503)659-2535 (fax)
tjoy@pps.k12.or.us

"I must Create a System or be enslavd by another Mans.
I will not reason and Compare; my business is to Create."
-William Blake,=20

[jsterman@MIT.EDU (John Sterman)]

Re Bill Harris question about how to deepen ones learning about SD
when you cant come back to school.

Bill has the right idea already: read the literature! Most important,
as George Richardson has said, recreate the classic models of the field
on your own computer and for yourself. This means entering them in to
the computer yourself, from scratch, NOT getting the model on disk. The
latter way ensures the model remains a black box; the former forces you
to look at and ponder every equation - and when you do, ask why did
they do it this way? what might be better?. The time spent will pay
huge dividends later. Finally, find someone to work with and bounce
your ideas off.

SD is not a spectator sport. You learn by doing. And best of all, its
fun, too.

John Sterman
jsterman@mit.edu

[CrbnBlu@aol.com]

irt: dave_patterson@MENTORG.COM (Dave Patterson), Mon, May 6, 1996 1:38 PM
EST

In an off the list communication Dave indicated that it might make more sense
to refer to this University concept in a fashion other than something that
looked like US Net for obvious reason. I think some of my history crept into
thsi because it abbreviates to USN, in which I served for a number of years.

Daves comment was that maybe Systems University Net (SU Net) would be more
appropriate, and I agree with him. And, when I first read it I missed a most
marvelous connection. This abbreviates to SUN, which could be indicative of a
bright star in the future of the worlds collective understanding. And yes, I
know there is already a SUN Microsystems.

more thoughts?

Gene Bellinger
CrbnBlu@aol.com
http://www.radix.net/~crbnblu/

["Ing. Fabian H. Szulanski "]

In response to Jims questions, heres a suggestion:

What about a knowledge based system designed by the most skilled SD
modelers , aimed for distance learning (perhaps contained in a CD),
accompanied with a comprehensive workbook for the interested apprentice
(which may be included also in the CD).
There may be two or three levels: basic and advanced, or basic,
intermediate and advanced.
This may be a cheaper solution, using the self-learning mode, and as it
should be knowledge based, the inside experts should guide and
evaluate while advancing with the workbook.
There may be made arrangements with the copyrights owners of the most
famous SD pieces of literature, as for including the most interesting
fragments of those books within the program.

I think this solution may be better spread worldwide than relying on
locally delivered US SD modeling training programs, and itd be
independent from any time frame, as itd be a self learning program.
Perhaps there should exist some kind of certification process included
in this CD, enabling apprentices to demonstrate they have acquired the
projected modeling skills.

Perhaps this idea helps a little...

Fabian Szulanski
simul@simul.recom.edu.ar


---
Ing. Fabian H. Szulanski
simul@simul.recom.edu.ar

[Richard Bates]

irt: CrbnBlu@aol.com (Gene Bellinger), Fri, 3 May 1996 10:
>Maybe we should establish the University of Systems on the Net (US Net),


Ive been monitoring the System-Dynamics list for the last month and . I=
=20
was particularly impressed with Gene=92s US Net comment. I was thinking=20
something very similar over the last couple of weeks but didnt know what=
=20
to say. =20

Im currently a part-time graduate student in Information Systems but=20
most of my learning appears to come from self study and surfing the net.=20
A recognized internet university could combine the strength of wide area=
=20
access, formal university structure, internet flexibility and=20
informality, multimedia presentation, etc....It would he people like me=20
to have a structure goal to achieve and a personal measure of=20
accomplishment. It would concentrate experience and skill on one virtual=
=20
campus.

I don=92t have any answers to Gene=92s questions but I can envision how=20
courses might work and add more questions. =20

Courses could consist reading web pages such as Gene=92s=20
http://www.radix.net/~crbnblu/welcome.html , monitoring & participating=20
in listserves such as this one, reading text books (older technologies=20
are still applicable), chat rooms for on-line discussions, direct email=20
from the "instructor" and responses from "student", multiple=20
"instructors" for individual courses, etc..... I don=92t like long=20
messages so I=92ll quit while ahead.

Questions to add: Is it for profit or non-profit? Is financial aid=20
available? Will it comply with Veterans Administration requirements for=20
their benefits?

I think it=92s possible. Is it feasible?


<b>****</b> Bates
rbates@erols.com

[CrbnBlu@aol.com]

irt: simul@simul.recom.edu.ar (Ing. Fabian H. Szulanski ), Tue, May 7, 1996
5:36 PM EST

Fabian commented about the potential utility of a CD based knowledge base
system with multiple levels of self-learning modes as a vehicle for promoting
the awareness and use of SD.

I think I would agree with all of this and still ask if the concept might be
better served via a Net based system. Considering whats being proposed I
would expect the content to be rather dynamic in itself and the Net would
provide for not only distance learning but also distributed development and
hosting. I understand there are a few parts of the world where internet
access isnt what it could be yet I expect this situation to be fully
remedied with a year or two.

Gene Bellinger
CrbnBlu@aol.com

[CrbnBlu@aol.com]

irt: rbates@erols.com (Richard Bates), Tue, May 7, 1996 5:36 PM EST

I want to thank <b>****</b> for his interest and support of the SUN (Systems
University on the Net) concept. I have received a number of similar messages
in the past few days. His additioin of the monitoring & participating in
listserves and chat rooms seems to make a lot of sense.

As for the questions <b>****</b> poses, I would think it shoud be a sponsored by a
non-profit organization, one it is acredited I would expect finanical aid
would be avaiable in some for and yes it should endeavor to comply with VA
requirements for benefits as long as it didnt conflict with the intended
purpose of the undertaking.

The more I think about this the more I consider it to be feasible.

Gene Bellinger
CrbnBlu@aol.om