Hello,
I have just started the journey on SD -the conference in Nijmegen was the starting point- and I really got hooked;-))
Since I am heavily in Lean Thinking I wonder whether there exist already models on that topic bringing together Lean and SD?
Thanks for your comments, especially how one can start with system dynamics in business surroundings especially production ones.
Regards from Leipzig, Germany
Ralf
System Dynamics in Business
At the risk of being moot; and ignoring for the moment the details of 'Lean' beyond the notion of efficient use of resources, you can't go wrong with two books; Sterman's "Business Dynamics" and Kim Warren's "Competitive Strategy Dynamics"; give yourself a few years to get going if you are smart and motivated. If you are from an engineering background read Forrester's "Industrial Dynamics". Read these books cover to cover, again and again.
Regards,
Mike
Regards,
Mike
Lean thinking
Hi
Lean thinking cannot be considered as a paradigm (a scientific or sometimes not so scientific, methodology to explore the world) but the basis of human progress towards more value with less effort that has governed the world since the beginning of humanity.
So lean thinking is not new, but has been revisited and given a new name at the beginning of the nineties. It is not a method but an objective.
SD is a true paradigm.
So trying to bring together lean thinking and SD has no sense for me.
Of course you can use SD to explore Lean thinking problems.
But it is impossible to say if SD can be useful to Lean thinking in general as a Lean
thinking problem is not a definition precise enough.
The best way to see whether a problem suits a certain paradigm is to define the problem using your common language (German) and using no peculiar paradigm tools, so as to
avoid any preconceived idea and the common language is the best tool to define a problem. Once it has been described, then you can explore different paradigms to see the one that is best suited for the problem in question, and the value that will add its utilization and whether it is appropriate to use any paradigm at all.
Regards.
JJ
Lean thinking cannot be considered as a paradigm (a scientific or sometimes not so scientific, methodology to explore the world) but the basis of human progress towards more value with less effort that has governed the world since the beginning of humanity.
So lean thinking is not new, but has been revisited and given a new name at the beginning of the nineties. It is not a method but an objective.
SD is a true paradigm.
So trying to bring together lean thinking and SD has no sense for me.
Of course you can use SD to explore Lean thinking problems.
But it is impossible to say if SD can be useful to Lean thinking in general as a Lean
thinking problem is not a definition precise enough.
The best way to see whether a problem suits a certain paradigm is to define the problem using your common language (German) and using no peculiar paradigm tools, so as to
avoid any preconceived idea and the common language is the best tool to define a problem. Once it has been described, then you can explore different paradigms to see the one that is best suited for the problem in question, and the value that will add its utilization and whether it is appropriate to use any paradigm at all.
Regards.
JJ
Literature on System Dynamics / Business Strategy
Hello Mike,
two the quoted books I already have bought (Business Dynamics, Industrial Dynamics) and I am slowly getting into the topic.
I really can see that the journey -as well as with Lean- is not over but is a continuum;-)
Especially games such as the Beergame or the Flight Simulator seem to be good ways to pick up other colleagues or management members onto the train to System Dynamics.
I guess I also have to fresh up my calculus knowledge that is stuck under a lot of time that has passed.
Regards,
Ralf
two the quoted books I already have bought (Business Dynamics, Industrial Dynamics) and I am slowly getting into the topic.
I really can see that the journey -as well as with Lean- is not over but is a continuum;-)
Especially games such as the Beergame or the Flight Simulator seem to be good ways to pick up other colleagues or management members onto the train to System Dynamics.
I guess I also have to fresh up my calculus knowledge that is stuck under a lot of time that has passed.
Regards,
Ralf
If you can discuss the need for brushing up your calculus with someone with solid SD expertise ( I don't consider my expertise as being 'solid' ) you might find its not crucial. Its amazing what 'calculus' insights you can get from simply diving in and buidling your own models; carefully scrutinizing how each model stock and its inflows and outflows interact.
Mike
Mike
Several years SD takes in effect in business?
Hello together,
just got Jay W. Forrester's book "Industrial Dynamics" and scanned through it. He says in a later chapter that it will take from 3-4 years on that there are any or reasonable effects seen in companies using System Dynamics.
Who knows the managers that are willing to wait such a long time -I don't really think that's long- to see positive effects of SD?
Could this be the main reason that SD is so difficult to implement in companies?
Who of you has positive examples?
Thanks and best regards
Ralf
just got Jay W. Forrester's book "Industrial Dynamics" and scanned through it. He says in a later chapter that it will take from 3-4 years on that there are any or reasonable effects seen in companies using System Dynamics.
Who knows the managers that are willing to wait such a long time -I don't really think that's long- to see positive effects of SD?
Could this be the main reason that SD is so difficult to implement in companies?
Who of you has positive examples?
Thanks and best regards
Ralf
Several years SD takes in business
Hi Ralf
I think that the time it takes to get any positive results from SD depends on a lot of factors.
Mainly the kind of subject, the expertise of the modellers, the knowledge of the subject from the people dealing with it, the ability of the organisation to implement new methods, the state of the business and the state of the environment of the business (if the business is in a bad state, it will probably have other things to do than invest in a modelling effort) etc…
If you mix all this, you will not get any general answer to your question.
I have since now tried to model different problems and the only one that I use is a small one made in about 20 hours, and that will be implemented next year, when we make our investments.
A second point is whether it is the implementation that causes problem or finding something worth implementing.
From my experience, my problems have not been to implement something but to find something worth implementing.
Any business that is sure of the results of a policy, will try to find some ways to implement it even if it takes a long time. Think of the bank that lends money for up to 30 years for a home.
Ask the same bank to lend you money even for 3 months to start a new business only with the guarantee of it!
If you find problems with implementation, SSM (soft system methodology seems a good method, Peter Checkland has just written a new book on the subject with the editor Wiley Wiley.com).
If you look for an easier and shorter to use modelling techniques but still effective, cognitive mapping techniques are good too, ‘Visible thinking from Bryson and al. at Wiley too’ is a good introduction.
I think that the principal reason of the difficulty of SD to be more used comes from the fact that people try to use it with inadequate subjects and eventually too with inexperienced modellers and not for any implementation problem.
Regards.
JJ
I think that the time it takes to get any positive results from SD depends on a lot of factors.
Mainly the kind of subject, the expertise of the modellers, the knowledge of the subject from the people dealing with it, the ability of the organisation to implement new methods, the state of the business and the state of the environment of the business (if the business is in a bad state, it will probably have other things to do than invest in a modelling effort) etc…
If you mix all this, you will not get any general answer to your question.
I have since now tried to model different problems and the only one that I use is a small one made in about 20 hours, and that will be implemented next year, when we make our investments.
A second point is whether it is the implementation that causes problem or finding something worth implementing.
From my experience, my problems have not been to implement something but to find something worth implementing.
Any business that is sure of the results of a policy, will try to find some ways to implement it even if it takes a long time. Think of the bank that lends money for up to 30 years for a home.
Ask the same bank to lend you money even for 3 months to start a new business only with the guarantee of it!
If you find problems with implementation, SSM (soft system methodology seems a good method, Peter Checkland has just written a new book on the subject with the editor Wiley Wiley.com).
If you look for an easier and shorter to use modelling techniques but still effective, cognitive mapping techniques are good too, ‘Visible thinking from Bryson and al. at Wiley too’ is a good introduction.
I think that the principal reason of the difficulty of SD to be more used comes from the fact that people try to use it with inadequate subjects and eventually too with inexperienced modellers and not for any implementation problem.
Regards.
JJ