I've been looking for a class, and I still only see two choices.
a) 2 days beginner or intermediate
b) Masters degree course
I can travel.
Can anyone here teach advanced modeling?
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Lee Jones
Advance courses
What do you mean by advance courses?
What is your objective?
If your objective is too have an idea on the possible applications of SD. a one week course will certainly do.
But you will not learn to build models for serious real life problems.
JJ
What is your objective?
If your objective is too have an idea on the possible applications of SD. a one week course will certainly do.
But you will not learn to build models for serious real life problems.
JJ
I am not sure a week or so will be adequate for an advanced SD course. A good basic SD course would take months, even many years. Basic learners should be given a decade for learning to master basic SD modeling principles, with 6 years in school plus 4 years in univsersity. SD modeling is simple to learn but hard to do, just like a board game called "Go" (http://www.usgo.org). It is simple to learn how to play the game, and even how to play it like professional players. But only a handful of learners can play like that really. When practiced, both Go and SD are an art--the state of being often stressed by Jay as a warning to beginners.
Not all concepts can be teached and alway provide a deep understanding. I find it interesting to view SD from my own thinking of SD than to view it from reading SD books that try to define what SD is and how to build it in the authors' ways. When building the urban model, Jay W. Forrester had read no SD books!, had him?
MK
Not all concepts can be teached and alway provide a deep understanding. I find it interesting to view SD from my own thinking of SD than to view it from reading SD books that try to define what SD is and how to build it in the authors' ways. When building the urban model, Jay W. Forrester had read no SD books!, had him?
MK
Studying advanced SD
Hi Monte
I agree with you that SD has a lot to do with practice, and that the fundamental rules are very simple.
I agree too that it is better not to be constrained by an author view and rely more on ones own view and thinking like Jay did when he first studied a dynamic problem in the middle of the fifties.
But one must always start from somewhere to make experiences that foster your own opinions.
Ant the problem is not to learn the basic rules that are simple, but to gain knowledge by practising, first with good books and next with real world problems.
It is there that I do not agree with you. If you study with good practical books (and I only know one) you can after one year or two, start to work on your own, preferably with not to complicate problems at first. You have the rest of your life of course to improve your skills, as with any other profession.
One needs too to have a good understanding and preferably practice too of other related fields, like hard or soft OR, Lean thinking, Six Sigma, balanced scorecards etc…
But I do not believe that one needs a special artistic gift to be a good modeller.
I thought that at first, when reading other books that present SD as a sort of mysterious and magical field. Since Coyle’s book has completely demystified SD, and for me it is not very different than any other scientific discipline like mechanic or thermodynamic where it is not necessary to have any special artistic gift to succeed.
I do not believe at all in academic courses to learn modelling
unless you have exceptionnal teachers which is excessively rare. Academic courses are too get a diploma with some exceptions of course like medicine.
Regards.
JJ
I agree with you that SD has a lot to do with practice, and that the fundamental rules are very simple.
I agree too that it is better not to be constrained by an author view and rely more on ones own view and thinking like Jay did when he first studied a dynamic problem in the middle of the fifties.
But one must always start from somewhere to make experiences that foster your own opinions.
Ant the problem is not to learn the basic rules that are simple, but to gain knowledge by practising, first with good books and next with real world problems.
It is there that I do not agree with you. If you study with good practical books (and I only know one) you can after one year or two, start to work on your own, preferably with not to complicate problems at first. You have the rest of your life of course to improve your skills, as with any other profession.
One needs too to have a good understanding and preferably practice too of other related fields, like hard or soft OR, Lean thinking, Six Sigma, balanced scorecards etc…
But I do not believe that one needs a special artistic gift to be a good modeller.
I thought that at first, when reading other books that present SD as a sort of mysterious and magical field. Since Coyle’s book has completely demystified SD, and for me it is not very different than any other scientific discipline like mechanic or thermodynamic where it is not necessary to have any special artistic gift to succeed.
I do not believe at all in academic courses to learn modelling
unless you have exceptionnal teachers which is excessively rare. Academic courses are too get a diploma with some exceptions of course like medicine.
Regards.
JJ
I've learned several tricks...oh, that's how I can represent this....that I could share in a few minutes. Took me months. My brother advanced a year on the banjo after one lesson...a little learning by osmosis. I'm practicing also. The choices for classes are still 2 day or 4 years. Still looking for an in between. I will check out the book that you represented.
My practical problems are the problems of working in marketing in a backwards area that sees things as "obviously true" and tend to put a lot of resources behind those obvious truths. Ideas like trends, delays, etc. seem to be fairly incomprehensible as the education level of this area is mostly industrial based or other businesses who are all about these "new age buzzwords" but make me think that they really haven't got a clue.
My practical problems are the problems of working in marketing in a backwards area that sees things as "obviously true" and tend to put a lot of resources behind those obvious truths. Ideas like trends, delays, etc. seem to be fairly incomprehensible as the education level of this area is mostly industrial based or other businesses who are all about these "new age buzzwords" but make me think that they really haven't got a clue.
MIT Business Dynamics - worth every penny
Hi Barry,
I attended the workshop at MIT last year myself, on my own expenses, and can say:
it is worth the money and new ideas that flow from it:)
Perhaps on a smaller scale and a slightly different approach the ISEE Online-Teaching Program is worthwhile checking out.
Cheers
Ralf
I attended the workshop at MIT last year myself, on my own expenses, and can say:
it is worth the money and new ideas that flow from it:)
Perhaps on a smaller scale and a slightly different approach the ISEE Online-Teaching Program is worthwhile checking out.
Cheers
Ralf
Ralf Lippold