SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

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milligan
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Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by milligan »

I have 2 questions, triggered by, but not directly related to the current
discussion thread focusing on the complexity of incorporating census data
in SD models and the general utility of data-intensive modeling. These
questions do not deal with "technical" aspects of SD modeling, but refer
to the potential for application, and the significance of using, SD in
public policy development.


In his posting of 2/8/00, Keith Linard wrote:

"Sometimes, particularly in circumstances where solutions are non
controvertial or where there are not multiple stakeholders pushing
conflicting agendas, the successful model may simply consist of causal
loop or influence diagrams , or primitive SD models. Much of the public
sector reform program in Australia during the 1980s was driven by such
high level modeling."


1) I have searched the listserv archives extensively for messages
relating to public sector-related applications of SD, as that is my
primary area of interest. (Jaideep, take note. Thank-you for this
wonderful service! :) I do not recall finding any mention of a
published article canvassing the Australian experience in using SD for
public sector reforms. I am aware of the articles presented at the 1999
SDS Conference in Wellington, several of which deal with specific public
sector applications in a variety of countries. For more than a decade,
we in Canada, have looked to Australia (and New Zealand) as true
innovators in public sector reform. I would be greatly interested in
learning about SDs role in this area. Are there any published articles
on the topic?


2) Keith Linard also wrote in the same posting:

"Government has a variety of possible policy levers to influence
change.......... A critical issue for all will be how different policies
impact on their particular clientele compared with other winners and
losers."

(Note: I have deleted the text that is specific to the vehicle emission
example he was citing.)

I have been pondering, for some time, whether SD offers a superior
alternative to the standard approach adopted for "regulatory impact
analysis" which, at least in Canada, is centred on cost-benefit analysis.


The first step in regulatory impact analysis is to properly frame and
understand the problem. Clearly SD offers great potential at this stage.


The second step, after deciding whether government should intervene, is
to identify and assess alternate courses of action: alternate
instruments (policy levers). In the Canadian federal government, this
stage goes by a variety of names: "regulatory alternatives analysis",
"strategic options analysis", and most recently, "risk management
analysis". Seems to me that if a SD model reflects a comprehensive
theory of what is influencing the (problem) behaviour, then the model
could be used to help identify and assess possible consequences of using
different alternatives. I have not been able to find any instance of its
use in Canada for that purpose, however.

The third step is to assess the impacts (largely focused on costs vs
benefits, and distributive impacts (winners and losers) of the proposed
regulatory approach. This can include an assessment of the potential
impacts of regulatory requirements of different stringency. There, it
seems that application of sensitivity analysis for some variables in an
SD model could help inform the analysis. (I think that the model would
have to incorporate a "theory of compliance" more sophisticated than that
which public choice theorists would advocate.)

So far, all this adds up to the idea that SD would be a useful addition
to the regulatory impact analysis toolkit. What is troubling me is that
I think it probably offers something much more significant, something
akin to a "paradigm shift". The genesis of regulatory impact analysis
methodology is microeconomic analysis. The frame of reference for the
Canadian federal regulatory policy (ie. the policy defining when and how
the government will use regulatory intervention) is narrowly bounded by
economic principles (particularly cost-benefit). But, after 20 years of
living under this regime, it is clear that it doesnt fully connect with
the considerations that drive public policy development and
decision-making at the political level. And so, it has not been fully
successful in shaping government decisions. Perhaps, not successful at
all! (Fixes that fail!)

My problem is that I cant quite get my thinking straight on what it
would mean to adopt SD as a way to frame regulatory impact analysis. Is
it simply a better tool, a way to take account of a broader range of
considerations and make sense of their interplay over time? Or is it
something much more fundamental, equivalent to the revolution that
occurred when governments began to understand that regulatory
intervention created economic impacts outside government that
significantly outweighed the budgetary impacts inside government? I have
no doubt that it is a valuable addition to the toolkit. My instinct
tells me that it is something more.

I would appreciate any input from the Discussion Group that could help
advance my thinking in this area.

Eric Milligan
From: milligan <milligan@rcgi.com>


RCGI
The Regulatory Consulting Group Inc.
Suite 600, 45 Rideau St.
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
K1N 5W8

Tel: 613-562-4077
Fax: 613-562-4102
"George Backus"
Member
Posts: 23
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by "George Backus" »

In response to Bruce Campbell:

Irrationality is usually pretty "rational;" it consistently serves some
self-interest. The SD communitys concept of rationality simply implies a
more reasoned and inclusive approach to serving that self-interest.
Nonetheless, in all cases the decision is simply a weighing of alternatives
by what may be an objectively perverse set of preferences. A politician
may want to satisfy constituents to get reelected or may simply need to
assuage an ego trip. The difference is only in parameterization.

The preference function can be determined in multiple ways. You just need to
remember that humans never tell the truth about themselves -- no matter how
hard they try. The preference function is often related to multi-attribute
decision making. You can see "Decisions with Multiple Objectives" by Howard
Raiffa (who may be on this server...) This work tells you how to decide
what to consider. The use of multi-attributes in decision making is
illustrated in the early work of Andy Ford and Peter Gardiner. "Which Policy
Run is Best, and Who Says So?"in TIMS Studies in the Management Sciences:
System Dynamics 1980.

If I am modeling a decision maker, we/I ask an *associate* of the decision
maker why the person made some decisions. This tells what may be the
implicit motivation , i.e. components of the preference. We then make a
list of potential decisions and ask the associate to rate them for the
decision maker. We then regress the decisions on the decision variables (the
whys). Finally we go the real decision maker and determine if he/she
agrees with the rating of decisions we simulated. This gets rid of some of
the biases the decision maker would add to the "Decision Survey." You can
simply go to the decision maker to rate the set of potential decisions, but
then need to correct for biases in what is said and what is really done. You
can use actual decisions to correct for the bias (see the work of Mark
Bradley (who may also be on this server) on how to correctly do this. We
incorporate the results into Qualitative Choice functions (the work of
Daniel McFadden -- who definitely is not on this server). Qualitative
Choice is compact (few equations) and robust (limited data gives reliable
results -- for even the most irrational decision maker).

Because the decision maker has blessed the idea that the model reflects
his/her wonderful decision making skills, he/she will take model results
seriously -- even embrace runs for which he/she cant comprehend how the
feedback gave "counterintuitive" results.

You do need to add in the counter side of the argument to the model, as
well as the physical result dynamics, to capture the balance of power
struggles (feedback) as consequences and counter-responses shift.

If the idea is to simply influence decisions, we find that the most
important consideration is to win acceptance by the *key* decision maker --
who is usually *not* your client. Thus, if you really want the decision to
happen, you may need to knife your client and change allegiances -- but,
after all, everything is just all politics and the model is part of the
show....

G

George Backus, President
Policy Assessment Corporation
14604 West 62nd Place
Arvada, CO 80004-3621
Bus: 303-467-3566
Fax: 303-467-3576
Cell: 303-807-8579
Email:
George_Backus@ENERGY2020.com
"Jay W. Forrester"
Senior Member
Posts: 63
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by "Jay W. Forrester" »

The following selections from Bruce Campbell (SD2600) raise an issue that
surrounds several of the contributions to this discussion thread.

>Firstly, it is implicit in Erics post that if we come up with a better
>modelling method we should then be able to make better decisions. .....
>models that can justify the decision are
>presented. .......
>
>Getting to
>these decision makers, in my experience, can be difficult. I know that
>Keith Linard takes the position that, if he cannot work directly with
>those people who will ultimately make the decision, he will not accept
>the modelling task. ....
>
>Fourthly, most management is fairly conservative. It is safe to make the
>same type of decision that has been made before -......
>
>All of the above leads to a situation where decisions, using accepted
>modelling methods, are made to benefit the short term aspirations of the
>powerful. Symbols and language are then created to "sell" these
>decisions to the powerless (Pfeffer, Chptr 6).
>
>Like Eric, I strongly believe that SD has something to offer and has the
>potential to greatly improve the outcomes of decisions.

There has been discussion related to the difficulty of getting "decision
makers" to accept "decisions" that are based on system dynamics models.

But system dynamics models are best and properly used for designing
policies, not decisions. Much of the confustion in working with managers
lies in their not distinguishing between policies and decisions. Policies,
as represented in the equations of a system dynamics model, are the rules
by which decisions are made. The policies state what decision should
result from any possible combination of surrounding conditions. The
recommended policy states how to make a stream of decisions
moment-by-moment through time.

An important part of educating a client in the use of a system dynamics
model is to establish a clear understanding that one is seeking policies to
be applied continuously to govern streams of decisions, not a specific
decision at a point in time.
---------------------------------------------------------
Jay W. Forrester
Professor of Management
Sloan School
Massachusetts Institute of Technology
Room E60-389
Cambridge, MA 02139
tel: 617-253-1571
fax: 617-258-9405
From: "Jay W. Forrester" <
jforestr@MIT.EDU>
Bill Harris
Senior Member
Posts: 75
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by Bill Harris »

Bruce Campbell wrote:

> All of the above leads to a situation where decisions, using accepted
> modelling methods, are made to benefit the short term aspirations of the
> powerful. Symbols and language are then created to "sell" these
> decisions to the powerless (Pfeffer, Chptr 6).
>
> Like Eric, I strongly believe that SD has something to offer and has the
> potential to greatly improve the outcomes of decisions. As I see it, our
> job is to convince decision makers that a long term view is preferable
> to short sightedness. How? Im not sure, other than to keep chipping
> away.

Bruce,

Heres another take on the topic (obviously Jay Forresters point about
policies and decisions is key from a modeling standpoint). I remember
thinking similar things about my manager a few years ago--he just didnt
get some of the more powerful ways to do things. (Ironically, I was
able to propose SD approaches to him; perhaps his engineering/control
systems background made him more open to SD.) I suspect he thought I
was just interested in trying the latest theoretical novelty simply
because it was new and arcane, without any business sense.

I happened to be re-reading Geoffrey Moores _Crossing the Chasm_ to get
some material on product acceptance, and I recognized Moores
description of innovators and pragmatists and how they viewed each other
as describing me and my manager precisely! I began to see myself as a
process innovator and him as a process pragmatist. I started using
Moores recommended approach for "crossing the chasm" with him, and it
worked. I began to see him picking up more of my ideas, and I saw more
rationality behind his decisions.

After doing that for several months, we had a discussion and I brought
up this concept. He immediately recognized what I was talking about (he
knew the book, too), and he agreed. After that, he became much more
accepting of my ideas, and I found myself more understanding of the
risks he underwent when he set policies and made decisions.

So, whats the point? Simply that

*This seems to be a common issue for anyone with newer ideas to push.
*Maybe reframing the issue would lead to increased success.
*Geoffrey Moores model seems to apply to ideas and services as well as
to products.

Thanks for bringing it up! Has anyone else seen this work?

Bill
--
Bill Harris 3217 102nd Place SE
Facilitated Systems Everett, WA 98208 USA
http://facilitatedsystems.com phone: +1 425 338-0512
From: Bill Harris <bill_harris@facilitatedsystems.com>
Bill Braun
Senior Member
Posts: 73
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by Bill Braun »

>2 - the notion of SD as simply another tool is one that really has to be
>crushed. It is an unavoidable truth of reality that things accumulate -
>todays customers are the sum of all those ever won, minus all those ever
>lost - todays criminal population is the sum of all those who ever took to
>crime, minus all those who ever gave up (for whatever reason). The ONLY
>approach that deals with this absolute truth is the mathematics of integral
>calculus, so suggesting that SD is in some sense in competition with other
>methods is deeply misleading, both to our audience and ourselves.

Kim, I didnt read "simply another tool" as dismissive in any way. Rather,
there are other tangible competencies and intangible influences (that
factor into getting things done) that good managers and leaders make use
of. Recent discussion of the demographic and census models made a point of
cautioning against detail ad nauseam. I didnt interpret that as claiming
detail was unimportant, just that it doesnt need to be found to the Nth
degree in a model. If we seek absolute truth in models that would seem to
suggest enormous detail. If you are claiming absolute truth its reasonable
for your listeners to ask you to prove it beyond a reasonable doubt. It
seems to me that considerable detail is the only thing that will remove
that doubt.

Did you mean this as literally as I interpreted it? If not, can you expand
on this?

>On a personal note, this is why I believe that causal loop mapping was a
>most unfortunate branch line for system dynamics to take - for newcomer
>audiences it hides the very essence of SDs power - the ability to
>understand and manage the accumulation and depletion of critical factors,
>whether in business, government or other fields. I understand that CLDs
>were an attempt to reach a wider audience, but it turns out that most
>people are well-able to grasp the concept and importance of accumulation
>and depletion, even if they struggle to make good dynamic estimates based
>upon them.

I am slowly moving toward your point of view. I still cannot resist the
apparent ease with which students grasp CLDs and their transition to SDMs
seems relatively painless. However, I am now wondering if going straight to
SDMs, though it may be slower on the front end, will produce richer results
on the back end.

Do you have any anecdotes you can share?

Bill Braun
From: Bill Braun <medprac@hlthsys.com>

The Health Systems Group
Physician Leadership Training
Simulation Modeling for Healthcare
http://www.hlthsys.com
"Jim Hines"
Senior Member
Posts: 88
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by "Jim Hines" »

I am so conflicted about Kim Warrens posting. He is so right to say that
SD isnt just another tool, and his example is scores a direct hit. The
comment about feedback is not solid. Lots of us believe feedback is as
basic as integration to system dynamics.

Jim Hines
jhines@mit.edu
"Phil Odence"
Junior Member
Posts: 15
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by "Phil Odence" »

> Lots of us believe feedback is as
> basic as integration to system dynamics.

My take was that Kim was saying feedback IS as basic as integration, AND
integration (I prefer accumulation) is as basic as feedback. Stock flow maps
give us both. CLDs convey part only part of the story.


> I am slowly moving toward your point of view. I still cannot resist the
> apparent ease with which students grasp CLDs and their transition to SDMs
> seems relatively painless. However, I am now wondering if going
> straight to
> SDMs, though it may be slower on the front end, will produce
> richer results
> on the back end.

Having been conceptualizing models using stocks and flows (and teaching that
approach) for 8 years, I am in wholehearted agreement with Kim. It does take
a bit of learning to be able to write "grammatically correct" stock flow
maps (e.g. not flowing revenue from a stock of customers). However, people
can learn to read stock flow maps and critique them very easily and on the
fly.

The implication is that in conceptualizing a model with a group, you need at
least one person experienced enough to lead the mapping. One big payoff
downstream is that the those involved in the whiteboard conceptualization,
feel very connected to the simulation model that comes out of the process
because it is written in the language they were speaking when they provided
their inputs.

L. Philip Odence
High Performance Systems, Inc.
45 Lyme Road, Suite 300
Hanover, NH 03755
603.643.9636.x107, fx 9502
http://www.hps-inc.com
From: "Phil Odence" <podence@hps-inc.com>
milligan
Junior Member
Posts: 3
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by milligan »

The discussion relating to the relative value and significance of SD as a
tool to influence government policy-making has been very illuminating,
certainly for me. I wish to pursue a particular aspect that has emerged
over the last week or so. Again, I wish to caution readers that this
message does not deal with "technical" aspects of System Dynamics
modeling, but rather on clarifying its potential application to
government policy decisions concerning regulatory intervention. I
apologize in advance for the length of this posting, but sometimes
greater detail is required to promote understanding and precision of
thought. :)

In his posting of 2/11/00, Prof. Forrester reminded us:

"But system dynamics models are best and properly used for designing
policies, not decisions. Much of the confusion in working with managers
lies in their not distinguishing between policies and decisions.
Policies,
as represented in the equations of a system dynamics model, are the rules
by which decisions are made. The policies state what decision should
result from any possible combination of surrounding conditions. The
recommended policy states how to make a stream of decisions
moment-by-moment through time.

"An important part of educating a client in the use of a system dynamics
model is to establish a clear understanding that one is seeking policies
to
be applied continuously to govern streams of decisions, not a specific
decision at a point in time."

I would like to explore this distinction between "policy" and "decisions"
a bit more. As Prof. Linard, on 2/14/00 so rightly noted, my original
posting used the term, "policy" in the sense of public policy, not the
technical SD usage. Still, Prof. Forrester¹s comment, and subsequent
replies, made me realize that I had not reconciled the SD use of the
terms "policy" and "decision" (which have specific, limited meanings)
with the vague and highly variable use of those terms in the public
policy context. Again, I would appreciate some help in advancing my
thinking on these matters.

I think it might help for me to deal with a concrete example from my own
experience, since we could all waste a lot of time with semantic debates
about terms when there is no unifying context.

Here is my concrete example. I am interested in any guidance as to how I
should re-frame the following "policies" and "decisions" in their
appropriate SD analogs.

In 1985, the Canadian federal government "decided" to adopt a "Regulatory
Policy". The policy provided general framework defining the conditions
under which the government would use regulatory intervention and also the
process requirements that it would adopt in developing and approving
regulatory proposals. For example, in terms of process, advance notice
and consultation was required. In terms of substance, regulatory
intervention was not to be used unless there was clear evidence of a
problem, that regulatory intervention was the best solution among
alternative responses available to government, and that the costs of the
specific regulation were less than the benefits. The policy was a
commitment by the government to conduct itself in a particular way when
approach decisions of this type. It was meant to bind both bureaucrats
and Cabinet, which approves all regulatory proposals.

The specifics of the Canadian "policy" were based on a similar US federal
policy adopted under an Executive Order of the President. In fact, the
idea that there should even be a policy to set a framework for decisions
on regulatory intervention was borrowed from the US. The logic was,
that without a "supra-policy" of this type, these decisions would be
taken within a more limited frame of reference that was bounded solely by
the public policy considerations relating to the area of regulation (e.g.
transportation, energy, environment, consumer protection, health
protection). The frames of reference for these regulatory domains were
selective and tended to generate decisions that favoured more regulatory
intervention. (Several years ago the OECD recommended that all its
member countries adopt regulatory decision processes that embody similar
principles, specifying a standardized "checklist" for their
consideration.)

The concept of a supra-policy governing the use of the regulatory
intervention instrument of governance is unique, at least in Canada. We
have no equivalent policy setting out principles for other governing
instruments such as taxation, expenditure, or public ownership. (We did
have one attempting to define boundaries for using criminal law
prohibitions and processes.)

I think the "Regulatory Policy" is a true policy, as defined by Prof.
Forrester. It is meant to provide a framework within which specific
decisions will be taken regarding exactly what process steps will be
followed, whether regulatory intervention will be pursued for a
particular problem, and what level of stringency will be specified in a
regulatory law. Underlying the policy is a set of values and some sort
of mental model about how regulatory intervention affects society. The
model is more limited than, say, a sustainability model because it
focuses primarily on economic impact. However, it is broader than mental
models that apparently had prevailed in the minds of the regulatory
authorities who developed proposals for new regulations. In Prof.
Linards¹ terms, it is a "decision rule".

My original posting on "just another tool" was prompted by my growing
belief that the framework defined by this policy (and reflected in some
U.S. regulatory legislation I believe) is flawed, because it is too
narrowly defined, too limited in its implicit time horizon, and largely
blind to the reality that the problems and any possible responses are
dynamic in nature. In other words, the mental model underlying the
"regulatory policy" was systemically flawed, just as were the original
mental models of the regulators. The flaws relate to model boundaries, a
failure to appreciate the existence and behavior of accumulations, and a
failure to recognize feedback linkages (thus completely avoiding the
problem of determining which of the last two is the greater!) Finally,
in specifying an analytical methodology for proposed regulatory
intervention, the policy failed to put all that together, requiring that
some effort be made to develop advice on possible futures under alternate
government responses (including no response at all) over an extended
period of time.

So, my first question is: Would you agree that a supra-policy of this
type is a "policy" as the term is used in SD?

Now let¹s get to the question of "decisions". I am more uncertain about
application of SD terminology in this territory. I sometimes
characterize policy-making in the public sector as a root-system, a
network of policy decision nodes that grows increasingly dense and fine
as you drill down to the lowest levels. In public policy parlance, when
a government decides to, say, reinstate the power to regulate the fares
charged by airlines (as happened this week in Canada), this is called a
major "policy decision". In other words, a "decision" on a "policy". ".

The policy will govern a host of subordinate decisions on how to
implement it. When Cabinet decides on the exact wording of the Act of
Parliament that will create the regulatory power, this too is a "policy
decision", although of a less magnitude. The "policy" is reflected in
the law. This policy will govern a how of individual decisions by
government officials, private sector firms, and, ultimately, the courts
or administrative tribunals. When Cabinet approves subordinate laws that
fine-tune the criteria that characterize a justifiable airline fare, or
that govern the procedures for gaining approval of, or challenging an
airline fare, that is a "policy decision", and again the "policy" is
reflected in the law. Again, the policy captured in the subordinate
legislation will influence a host of decisions by a variety or actors.
When Cabinet determines how much money to give the regulatory authorities
that must administer the new law, that too is a "policy decision".
(Simply enacting a regulatory law accomplishes little. Implementation is
everything.)

So, my second question is: Are these decisions "decisions on policies" or
"just plain decisions"? If SD is meant for helping shape "policies", but
not "decisions" then in the public sector context, it has broad
application through hierarchy of policy decision-making I just outlined.
If, however, these are mere "decisions", the contribution of SD is in
doubt?

Now let¹s shift ahead 12 months or so. An administrative tribunal hears
an application challenging an airline rate, elaborates on its
interpretation of Parliament¹s intent when enacting the statutory
provisions and on Cabinet¹s intent when approving the subordinate
"regulations", determines that the rate is not consistent with the
requirements of the legislation (i.e. the "policy"), and issues a order
to roll it back.

My third question is: Would that be a "decision" in SD parlance?

I would have thought that SD offers a unique and valuable help for
public policy decision-making at all these levels, including the
tribunal! My firm has just been retained by the Canadian Privy Council
Office to assess the impact of the governments Regulatory Policy on
decision-making within the regulatory development process. I truly hope
that we do not validate the counter-assumptions identified by Prof.
Campbell in his posting of 2/10/00 concerning the true nature of
government decision-making. I am quite certain, however, we will find
some corroborating evidence. Like Profs. Campbell and Linard, I believe
that adoption of SD could significantly improve the outcomes of decisions
on government policies, true "policies¹ in the SD sense. For me, the
first step is to gain a better understanding of how it would differ from
the current approach and how it could be applied operationally. The
second, and probably much more difficult step, will be to convince the
government that there really is a "better way".


Eric Milligan
From: milligan <milligan@rcgi.com>


RCGI
The Regulatory Consulting Group Inc.
Suite 600, 45 Rideau St.
Ottawa, Ontario
Canada
K1N 5W8

Tel: 613-562-4077
Fax: 613-562-4102
Bruce Campbell
Junior Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by Bruce Campbell »

Erics query has raised some issues that I have been grappling,
unsuccessfully, with for some time. A number of comments need to be
made.

Firstly, it is implicit in Erics post that if we come up with a better
modelling method we should then be able to make better decisions. This
assumes that decisions are rational. Research by others (Pfeffer)
indicate that most decisions are not rational - they are the result of
power and politics. Once they are made, rational reasons for making them
are then sought. In many cases, models that can justify the decision are
presented.

Secondly, it is again implicit in Erics post that governments are there
to govern the country, state, city effectively. Cynics would argue that
the job of governments is to remain in government, not to govern
effectively. If this view is taken, then it could be argued that a long
term view of the current encumbents finishes at the next election date.
It could also be argued that a similar situation occurs in many
corporations where CEOs are on short term, performance related, terms.
This partly explains the popularity of cost/benefit analysis when
compared to SD. Cost/benefit tends to emphasise a short term view,
whilst SD tends to emphasise the longer term.

Thirdly, as Vennix has noted, we tend to simplify every problem to the
point where there are no more than 4 variables. Coming to terms with
multiple feedback loops is bloody hard work, as we all know, and is
often beyond the attention span of many decision makers. Getting to
these decision makers, in my experience, can be difficult. I know that
Keith Linard takes the position that, if he cannot work directly with
those people who will ultimately make the decision, he will not accept
the modelling task.

Fourthly, most management is fairly conservative. It is safe to make the
same type of decision that has been made before - the "you wont get
fired for choosing an IBM" mentality. This applies to both the ultimate
decision and the choice of modelling methods. Cost/benefit analysis and
economic rationalism are the flavours of the month. (However, economic
rationalism is losing credibility in Australian governments. There has
been a recent backlash by voters who are being hurt by it.)

All of the above leads to a situation where decisions, using accepted
modelling methods, are made to benefit the short term aspirations of the
powerful. Symbols and language are then created to "sell" these
decisions to the powerless (Pfeffer, Chptr 6).

Like Eric, I strongly believe that SD has something to offer and has the
potential to greatly improve the outcomes of decisions. As I see it, our
job is to convince decision makers that a long term view is preferable
to short sightedness. How? Im not sure, other than to keep chipping
away.

I look forward to an interesting discussion on this topic.

Bruce Campbell

Pfeffer, G., 1981, "Power in Organizations", Ballinger Publishing,
Cambridge MA
Vennix, J.A.C., 1996, "Group Model Building: Facilitating Team Learning
Using System Dynamics", John Wiley & Sons, Chichester, UK


--
Bruce Campbell
Joint Research Centre for Advanced Systems Engineering
Macquarie University 2109
Australia

E-mail:
Bruce.Campbell@mq.edu.au
Ph: +61 2 9850 9107
Fax: +61 2 9850 9102
Kim Warren
Junior Member
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Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by Kim Warren »

Two observations
1 - in spite of all the good reasons Bruce mentions as to why governmental
policy making is likely to be far from optimal, we do seem to be creeping
forward into an era of increasing administrative competence - economic
crises and inter-national conflicts between developed nations are
increasingly rare. The world may not be fully SD-literate yet, but wisdom
and thoughtfulness do seem to be on the increase ... which suggests that
the contribution SD offers may increasingly find a welcome audience
2 - the notion of SD as simply another tool is one that really has to be
crushed. It is an unavoidable truth of reality that things accumulate -
todays customers are the sum of all those ever won, minus all those ever
lost - todays criminal population is the sum of all those who ever took to
crime, minus all those who ever gave up (for whatever reason). The ONLY
approach that deals with this absolute truth is the mathematics of integral
calculus, so suggesting that SD is in some sense in competition with other
methods is deeply misleading, both to our audience and ourselves.
On a personal note, this is why I believe that causal loop mapping was a
most unfortunate branch line for system dynamics to take - for newcomer
audiences it hides the very essence of SDs power - the ability to
understand and manage the accumulation and depletion of critical factors,
whether in business, government or other fields. I understand that CLDs
were an attempt to reach a wider audience, but it turns out that most
people are well-able to grasp the concept and importance of accumulation
and depletion, even if they struggle to make good dynamic estimates based
upon them.

From: Kim Warren <
kim@farthing.globalnet.co.uk>
Keith Linard
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by Keith Linard »

Re: SD as an alternative to traditional Benefit Cost Analysis in
evaluation of regulatory policy proposals.

1. Benefit cost analysis is a powerful paradigm, even if only in that it
forces policy makers to move beyond pork barrelling or wishful thinking.
However BCA (or CBA depending on where you come from) has significant
theoretical & practical limitations. Ill leave the theoretical
limitations to the text books.

On a practical side, there is the incredible uncertainty in identifying and
in valuing the impacts. My ex post analyses suggest that even the most
concrete of inputs, the construction costs, have a standard deviation in
excess of 30%. The uncertainty regarding the magnitude and valuation of
projected social and environment impacts is even more contentious. Some
limited studies of mine suggest errors in magnitude in excess of 100%,
whilst valuations are even more problematic. Of course, similar degrees of
uncertainty also attend SD models. The critical issue is that the decision
makers are aware of the limitations of the respective tools. For both BCA
& SD, explicit recognition of the uncertainty coupled with Monte Carlo
simulation is one step in this direction.

So, what can SD add? SD may provide an input to the BCA analysis itself,
providing credence to key assumptions. Or SD may provide quite distinct
supporting input to the decision process.

In relation to the first point: recently I was contracted to review (and
subsequently to redo) a BCA analysis of Equal Employment Opportunity
policy. The client had spreadsheet full of detailed estimates of costs and
benefits (including estimates of legal fees saved etc etc). Because of my
concerns re double counting and many of the assumptions, I first built an
SD model which broadly replicated the historical patterns. The
understanding of direct and indirect causal relationships led to
significant changes in the BCA. One simple illustration: It was assumed
that increased spending on EEO would cut legal expenses because harrassment
incidents would be fewer. The modelling suggested that there would first
be a significant increase in legal fees through empowerment of sufferers,
in court behaviour and in management responses. The SD model enhanced the
credibility of the BCA analysis by making explicit to the various
stakeholders the presumed causal chains in the analysis.

A second example relates to BCA analysis of road maintenance policy
options. The original BCA was driven by data from a number of detailed
econometric studies. Testing the resultant model, however, pointed to
anomolies under certain conditions which the developers could not resolve.
Rebuilding the spreadsheet as a stock-flow model immediately highlighted
a key stock with inflow but no outflow ... the consequence of the developer
simplistically fusing two independent econometric studies.

Where there are highly contentious policy options involving quite distinct
soultions (e.g., for a transport problem, possible options might range
from new freeway, upgraded public transport, relocation of offices, higher
density residential development, telecommuting etc). From a theoretical
perspective, BCA is only valid when used for comparison within relatively
homogeneous decision sets. Use of BCA in this context would be invalid.
SD simulation, however, could be used to enlighten the stakeholders of the
consequences of alternative options, and lead towards rational discussion,
if not concensus.

Keith Linard
From: Keith Linard <
k-linard@adfa.edu.au>
Keith Linard
Junior Member
Posts: 11
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by Keith Linard »

Re: Jay Forresters distinction between designing policies and decision
making.

>But system dynamics models are best and properly used for designing
>policies, not decisions. Much of the confustion in working with managers
>lies in their not distinguishing between policies and decisions.
Policies,
>as represented in the equations of a system dynamics model, are the rules
>by which decisions are made.

>An important part of educating a client in the use of a system dynamics
>model is to establish a clear understanding that one is seeking policies
to
>be applied continuously to govern streams of decisions, not a specific
>decision at a point in time.

I have no quarrel with Jays argument, but suggest that there are problems
with his terminology, at least in some English speaking countries. Jay is
using policy in a technical (system dynamics specific) sense, whereas the
forum discussion was using policy in a sense consistent with one of the
common Oxford English Dictionary definitions, viz "a course of action
adopted by government". I suggest that SD is an important tool for
identifying for policy decision makers the consequences of alternative
"courses of action" (policy). I see the audience for such SD models to be
key stakeholders (those who are potentially affected by such consequences)
and the policy decision makers ... those who have the ability to adopt one
or other "course of action" ... policy ... which then, returning to Jays
words, "... governs streams of decisions, not a specific decision at a
point of time".

Because of the potential for confusion with the use of policy in an
unfamiliar way (noting that most of my clientele are policy analysts
working for policy decision makers), I have dropped Jays technical use
of the word policy (as represented in the SD model equations) and use
the terminology "decision rule". Of course, my perceived semantic
confusion may be Australian dialect specific.

Keith Linard
From: Keith Linard <
k-linard@adfa.edu.au>
gbh@panix.com
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SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by gbh@panix.com »

The questions I have about your government models are
who is your client? and what are your clients objectives?.
If the client is a particular legislator who is concerned
about future elections, then that should be a primary focus
of the model. One of the goals of the model should be to
maximize votes in a similar way that a goal of a corporate
model would be to maximize profits. The model should show voter
demographics (of which the legislator would probably have
detailed studies), their perception of the policies, their
perception of your client, and should also include the process
of introducing and implementing the policies. The model should
also parallel corporate models in other respects such as it
should identify your clients competitors, identify who are his
core supporters, his competitors core supporters, it should
address how he can increase market share by attracting his
competitors supporters without losing his own, and increase
market share by attracting those not currently voting. This
type of model, by showing how it affects your client directly,
is more likely to get his attention, his input when building
it, and his willingness to implement the policies recommended
through this process.

Greg
From: gbh@panix.com
Kim Warren
Junior Member
Posts: 5
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2002 3:39 am

SD: Simply another tool for public policy development?

Post by Kim Warren »

I did not mean to imply (and tried not to say) that feedback doesnt matter
- it is clearly as universal in the real world as accumulation. But
feedback without accumulation is close to meaningless, too. So my fear is
that eliminating the powerful and unavoidable maths of integration in order
to simplify our method has emasculated it to the point where many
newcomers think feedback is an intriguing observation, but little more.
Incidentally, returning to the thread that started this debate, recent UK
headlines suggest that our policy makers still have a way to go:
- The National Health Service is in crisis (again, still), with falling
staff numbers, fewer hospital beds and decaying equipment, driven by a
couple of decades of sustained under-spending. A proposed response is to
raise spending in real terms by 5% per year until it reaches rates
equivalent to other developed economies. But if spending is, say 30% below
what is needed to maintain adequate staff and facilities, a 5% increase
will only slow the rate of decline, so we can look forward to 6 more years
of things getting still worse. (Not exactly right of course, because with
the system shrunk still further, we wont need to spend so much to maintain
it!)
- Homelessness in London is a continuing shame and political embarrassment,
to which a much-trumpeted solution is to send in a hit squad to help
people back into accommodation. Once the problem is solved, it is
suggested, the hit squad can be disbanded .... but if the rate of arrival
of new homeless is unchanged, the system is going to just return to its
previous state. (Acknowledgements to George Richardson for his thorough
work on addressing the complexities of issues surrounding US welfare
reform, and to Ann van Ackere for similar insights on hospital waiting
lists).

From: Kim Warren <
kim@farthing.globalnet.co.uk>
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