Ventana software support forum

Posted: **Thu Sep 11, 2003 9:10 am**

Folks,

Ive been asked to join a team and see if we can use system dynamics to
analyze the most effective solutions to improve the efficiency of our main
turbine generators steam condenser. Condenser performance is limiting our
ability to take maximum advantage of our plants opportunity for Extended
Power Uprate.

Has anyone used system dynamics as a tool to find the high leverage points
for improving a power plants steam cycle efficiency and to maximize
generator output? Thanks in advance for any help you might be able to
provide.

David Gerlits
Senior Systems and Safety Analysis Engineer
Pilgrim Nuclear Power Station
Entergy Nuclear Northeast
600 Rocky Hill Road
Plymouth, MA USA 02360-6699
phone: 508-830-7957
fax: 508-830-8699
email: dgerlit@entergy.com

Posted: **Sat Sep 13, 2003 7:22 am**

David,

My thought is that TRIZ would be a more effective tool (than SD) for your purpose.

("TIPS" is the acronym for "Theory of Inventive Problem Solving," and "TRIZ" is
the acronym for the same phrase in Russian. TRIZ was developed by Genrich
Altshuller and his colleagues in the former USSR starting in 1946.)

Please see:

http://www.triz-journal.com/

as a starting reference.

Mark Wallace
From: "Mark B. Wallace" <mark.wallace@verizon.net>

Posted: **Sun Sep 14, 2003 8:48 pm**

David,

System Dynamics may help you study a system with dynamics, that is a system
with stocks and flows, but your condensers normal mode of operation is more
than likely in steady state. As such, all relationships can be dealt with
algebraically. While SD tools are great at managing complex relationships,
your base problem may fall more suitably with more direct approaches.

Of course, the key to your systems performance may end up being management
around transient conditions and not steady state.

Ray
From: "Ray on EV1" <rtjoseph@ev1.net>

Posted: **Mon Sep 15, 2003 10:00 am**

We have conducted several consulting projects using SD within a power
engineering context. These involved developing business cases for CCGT
plants and gas turbine development strategies. Both of these focused through
life costs (and value). The latter focussed on links between
· Impact of GT Technology Improvements
· Component Part Lifetimes
· Clean GT Performance
· Degradation of GT Performance
· Impact of Maintenance Philosophies
· Frequency of Maintenance
· Depth of Maintenance
· Customer/External Demand Drivers
· Demand Profiles
· Tariff Profiles
· Fuel Pricing
The strength of the approach was to link
engineering/operations/maintenance/demand planning within a high level
model.

Detailed engineering models can act as feeder models providing performance
curve data etc. Many such engineering models of course exist. Working in
the UK coal industry several years ago we used in house simulation models as
well as commercial packages such as AspenTech and GTPro. At the time these
performed steady state solutions although AspenTech has a dynamic package
now. These have detailed "in built" functionality to represent phase
information, steam tables etc. Phase information can be represented within
SD with a series of co flow structures for composition, temperature,
pressure etc. However, all this needs to be built from scratch within the
SD environment.

I would imagine that detailed engineering models providing data supporting a
high level plant dynamic model looking at demand side issues, maintenance
etc, to gain insight into long term performance and value would be a
candidate route.

Hope this provides some food for thought. You can contact me directly if
you would like more information

Dave Exelby
From: Dave Exelby <Dave.Exelby@hvr-csl.co.uk>
HVR Consulting Services Ltd

Ventana software support forum

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